Will it work? I doubt it.
Fred Hiltz would like the main discussion items at the January Primates’ meeting to be poverty, refugees, and global warming; in other words, temporal items, woes which inspire church enthusiasm of a magnitude overshadowed only by its inability to remedy them.
As much as Hiltz would like to avoid any discussion of disciplining TEC and the ACoC over their same-sex marriage preoccupation, squirm as he might, I am sure that the GAFCON primates will not let him get away with it.
From here:
A number of primates within the Anglican Communion are pushing for a Primates’ Meeting agenda that “reflects not only concerns within the domestic life of the church, but around the urgent issues within our common humanity,” said Archbishop Fred Hiltz, primate of the Anglican Church of Canada.
Returning from his December 9 meeting with Archbishop of Canterbury Justin Welby, Hiltz said he was informed by Welby that this particular call “is not coming from just certain parts of the Communion—it’s coming from every part of the Communion.”
While Hiltz acknowledged that issues around same-sex marriages will be an important topic of conversation at the meeting, he said he has encouraged Welby to make sure that the meeting’s agenda tackles important issues affecting the church and the world.
Earlier, Hiltz identified poverty, the global refugee crisis and climate change as key concerns for churches.
In an interview with the Anglican Journal, Hiltz said he was pleased with how receptive Welby was to this message. “He’s very open to that, and he said that a lot of the primates are calling for an agenda that reflects both.”
Hiltz also said that after his meeting with Welby, he came away “encouraged by his [Welby’s] clarity in terms of what the Primates’ Meeting is and what it’s not.”
The Primates’ Meeting “is not a decision-making body—it’s a body for people that come together to pray and discuss and discern and offer some guidance. We don’t make resolutions,” Hiltz said.
Since it was announced that Archbishop Foley Beach, the leader of the breakaway Anglican Church in North America (ACNA), would be present for the first part of the meeting, Hiltz said there has been concern in some quarters over whether or not attempts will be made to confront The Episcopal Church (TEC) over its decision this year to allow same-sex marriages. But Hiltz said Welby was quite clear that the meeting would not exclude any of the primates of churches that are members of the Anglican Communion.
“His principle is one of full inclusion of all the primates. I think he will encourage, and if need be, challenge, the primates to uphold that principle,” Hiltz said.
The meeting—scheduled Jan. 11-16, 2016—will be the first to be hosted by Welby since he was enthroned in 2013. The primates last met in Dublin in 2011, a meeting attended by only 23 or the 38 primates.
Hiltz said he believes part of the difficulty in getting the primates to meet arose from different understandings of the role of the Primates’ Meeting among the other instruments of the Communion. What began as a way for primates to meet for “friendly conversation” has been pushed in a more disciplinary direction, Hiltz said, which has led to some distorted understandings of how much authority primates actually have over the wider Communion.
“Within the Communion, as the Primates’ Meeting, we are called to a servant role, in terms of how we speak of, support and model servant leadership in the spirit of God’s mission,” he noted. “We’re servants of the churches in which we minister…we are called to be servants, not rulers.”
You heard it here folks. Amazing really. This is exactly why the ACoC has become irrelevant. Talk……….more talk……………and yet again talk it some more……until everyone’s eyes have glazed over and you are struck gormless!
Merciful Lord………….save me!!
Many words are spoken, very little is said.
Amen!
Fred Hiltz and his apostate colleagues should have been defrocked many years ago. They not only reject the Gospel but lead others from the truth and assist apostate so-called bishops to legally steal properties from genuine Christians. The only meaningful talk that could come from Fred Hiltz and his apostate colleagues would be a public confession and repentance and a pledge to return to the Gospel. Unless that happens there is no way for the ACoC and the TEC to survive. They are basically spitting in God’s face and expect a blessing for doing so.
“We’re servants of the churches in which we minister…we are called to be servants, not rulers.” Let him hang onto that thought …
Years ago a certain bp. in the ACoC prefaced some of his remarks with “I may be wrong”. I wished then that he had hung onto that thought; but he did not.
I have heard “I may be wrong” from liberals as well Priscilla. Unfortunately when that statement is associated with a lack of a fear of the Lord there is no fear of being wrong and initiating the resultant cavalcade of destructive consequences.
I am greatly encouraged to receive this from Archbishop Josiah:
Dear Priscilla,
I ask for your forgiveness for my failing to acknowledge with gratitude the two gift copies of your book [i.e. Holy Homosex? This & That] to the ACO! I have no cogent reason for my failure other than procrastination, I cannot count how many times it has crossed my mind to write but each time, I had it postponed. Again, I am humbly asking for you to forgive and at the same time continue to pray for me as I settle into this new and challenging position.
It is my desire to read your book during my five-day holiday over this Christmas season before the meeting of the Primates early next year. As you rightly described it, it is going to be a historic meeting but, the Lord will have the last word and this Communion will not disintegrate as many expect.
Have a great celebration and keep your love and prayers for His church going.
Blessings.
Josiah.
The Most Rev. Josiah Idowu-Fearon (Ph.D)
Secretary General of the Anglican Communion
Perhaps the GAFCON / Global South Primates could insist on discussing the shocking decline in AcoC membership and attendance. A very long conversation in which the past 50 years of the AcoC is examined in detail, complete with its constant and persistent drift away from Holy Scriptures to its now obsession with secular issues.
Church decline since 1966 is no secret. Liberal theology, allowing remarriage after multiple-divorces, Prayer Book revisions, ordination of women to the priesthood, same-sex blessings, aging, ignoring the outsiders, and so on can have a great impact on the membership and attendance.
What`s the point of having a discussion about issues such as women’s ordinations, same-sex marriages an the ordination of people in committed same-sex relationships when there is no common ground ?…Neither ECUSA/ACC/CofE will step back nor will the conservatives national churches accept those changes. There is no way that all the ordinations that have taken place in the last 30 years will be reversed or the marriages annulled so what’s the point? It’s better to talk about issues for which there is common ground and a real will to engage in a conversation.
At the end if the GAFCON people want to leave the Anglican Communion, well, so be it, sometimes divorce is better than living in a toxic relationship. Those who can live with having women priests and bishops will have their space, and those who don’t will have theirs; those who approve the blessing of same-sex relationships will have their space and those who don’t will have theirs. One thing is for sure, gay couples will get married wherever it is legal (it’s a matter of civil law, anyway) whether some African/Latin-American bishop agree or not, heterosexual couples will divorce and remarry regardless of what a bishop of South East Asia may say or not say. If a split is to happen it’d better come soon so each group can move with its own life and its own theology.
Your posting suggests that there is no real truth and that each person should be respected for what he considers true. That might well be for those outside the Gospel but for us who believe the TRUTH there is only ONE truth and that is the Gospel. The world certainly is not perfect and it is indeed true that a divorce is better than living in a toxic relationship but that does not excuse those who are involved. Yes, indeed some individuals will do as they please but that does not mean the church should sit back and simply go with the flow. Being a true Christian mandates that one accept:-
1. the full authority of Scripture, and
2. the uniqueness of Jesus Christ.
What we are seeing within the ACoC and the TEC and other sections within the Anglican Communion is a rejection of one or both of these mandates. One thing is sure those who reject the Gospel can no longer claim to be Christians and that includes the many apostate clergy, including so-called bishops and primates.
The split in the Anglican Communion is NOT liberalism versus conservatism but rather apostasy versus orthodoxy.
And thus endeth the lesson!
There is one glaring omission in all of this and that is Canada is far more secular, similar to large portions of Europe, than our friends in the U.S.
I think it falls to America’s “exceptionalism” that seems to permeate their whole society.
The ACoC started to lose gravity in the early to mid seventies. Never really got traction after that. The hierarchy thought that re-invention or re-branding, a term used today in business circles, might turn the tide. But alas and alack……..it never happened.
Your answer suggest you don’t understand that Theology is based on interpretations of religious texts, and those interpretations are influenced by cultural, historical and even economic contexts, that is why most religions have different streams because their belief systems are based on those interpretations, and Christianity is no exception, we have hundreds of Christan denominations because their theology is based on different interpretations of the Christian scriptures so what you call “the truth” may not be so for others, while other “truths” may be shared even within the same denomination, so the split in the Anglican church is not about orthodoxy v. apostasy, those terms have meaning depending of who uses them, the conflict in the Anglican church is about different interpretations of the same scriptural texts…so I am sorry to burst Jim’s bubble, the lesson is not ended until you and him understand that aspect.
Bernard, you might as well come right out and say it. You know you want to:
That question has been asked “ad nauseam” by theologians, philosophers, scientists etc. That’s how Christianity came up with the Nicene Creed as the statement of its core beliefs by asking, that’s how Martin Luther, John Calvin, Knox and many others triggered the Protestant Reformation and ended up creating new Christian denominations, many keep asking the same question over and over, I don’t think I am the only one who now and then asks, even in the RCC they ask, that’s why they have councils, to examine their doctrines and come up with a relevant answer
I hate it when sarcasm is wasted.
Maybe you should revise your definition of “sarcasm”
Dear Bernard,
I am extremely liberal and open minded……. and 100% orthodox in theology.
I suspect you and I agree almost in every single issue pastoral that is.. and ecclesiological, and disciplinary as well. .. except that I am afraid that our paths are different: mine is based and stems from revelation in Christ.. yours (seems to me) is based on something else (anthropology, semiotics, linguistics, etc., you name it…. but not revelation and the theology that springs from it -and I am very competent on all those fields).
There are people with a big deficit of theological training in both sides (conservatives and liberals). I do not know if you have any theological training but if you do then I would invite you to decide whether you are going to approach this conversation -and keep participating in this blog- from an emic perspective (from the perspective of the subject -from within the social group ) or from an etic one (from the perspective of the observer -from outside). If you opt for an etic perspective.. then you have the CBC news website. If you make up your mind in favour of the emic prespective… then you can bring into the conversation all kind of arguments from all fields of sciences and then your contribution to the conversation can be useful in this blog. Blessings!
Bernard………I admire your tenacity. Even in the face of great obstacle you continue to hammer away at what you perceive to be ‘the truth’. There is no ‘one truth’ …..there are many. The Bible is a gorgeous inspired book of metaphor, poetry and prose. I have met many an Anglican over the years who place the beloved BCP in the same category as “the Book”. I mean…………merciful Lord, save me. I have no quarrel with those who find it a sustaining part of their spiritual life to be sure.
To think that it could ever be the glue to hold the church together for an eternity is folly.
The ACoC is a congregational church and while the BCP is a beautiful work…..the institution and its people have evolved.