According to Bishop Dennis Drainville his diocese, the Diocese of Quebec, is dying:
The Rt. Rev. Dennis Drainville said his diocese was “teetering on the verge of extinction” according to an account given by the church’s official newspaper.
Of the diocese’s 82 congregations, 50 were childless and 35 congregations had an average age of 75. These graying congregations often had no more than 10 people in church on Sundays, he said. “The critical mass isn’t there, there’s no money anymore,” he said.
In a flash of brilliance rarely seen illuminating the dimly sputtering synapses of a Canadian Anglican bishop, Drainville has decided that the answer to replenishing his childless congregations is to start blessing homosexual couples. Because their couplings produce so many offspring.
Same-sex couples in the diocese of Quebec will soon be able to receive a blessing of their civil union, according to the Anglican diocese’s newspaper, the Gazette.
[….]
In his charge to synod, Drainville expressed his intention to provide a rite of blessing and pastoral support for persons living in “committed, same-gender relationships.” This blessing is not a marriage, he emphasized, but rather “the blessing of civil union that has already taken place.”
Of course, Christianity is all about numbers and cash, anyway…..
And Jesus thought that money-lenders in the temple were bad; I wonder how this scheme goes over.
This is just one more of those suspect motives in the Anglican Church.
I understand that patients dying of cancer are some times given snake venom to ease the pain……is this so different? Poison is poison after all.
The bishop is a genius – so is Lucifer!
Vous êtes complètement à côté de la plaque si vous croyez vraiment que l’agonie de l’Église anglicane au Québec puisse être due à une quelconque question d’orthodoxie. L’idée même est profondément ridicule. Le problème de l’Église anglicane dans cette province est principalement linguistique: l’Église anglicane est perçue comme l’Église des anglais. Ce qui est amusant, c’est qu’effectivement, s’afficher comme plus ouvert à la communauté gaie est une stratégie gagnante au Québec. Les Québécois en ont marre de l’Église catholique romaine précisément en raison de son intransigeance sur les grandes questions morales de l’heure. Mais si les services demeurent uniquement en anglais chez les anglicans, une plus grande ouverture morale ne sera pas suffisante pour récupérer la partie de la population francophone qui se sentirait chez soi à l’Église anglicane du Canada.
Here is the English for the above – David. Vincent, in future, please have pity on us Anglophones and stick to English.
But so many have left the ACofC precisely because it caves in on the great moral questions of the day. The novelty would wear off soon enough for Quebecers too.
The Quebec problem is more like the problem one finds in adolescents, in that they are pouting and pretending to exert independence when they are in no way prepared for the responsibilities. The excitement will wear off after perhaps another generation, and they will realize that to structure their society they have to fill that void left by Catholicism with something at least as powerful. Maybe they will go back to the Roman Catholic Church. It may look good again after years of a meaningless vacuum.
I do think you underestimate the severity of the wound the RC Church left on the French speaking population’s psyche. And if you don’t speak French, you’ll never really get a sense of it.
I don’t speak Russian, Vincent, and yet I have quite a good understanding of what generations of Communism did to those people.
The RC Church also gave a great deal to the Quebecoise, rather like the British bequeathing vast social infrastructures to the lands they colonized.
Whatever education the French Quebec populace had, came from the RC Church, for starters (and the Quebecoise are still not keen on education if left to their own resources). As I said, they seem ill-prepared for independence of any kind.
Linguistics is not the cause of the demise of the Anglican Church in Canada any more than its decline everywhere – even in churches in which the local languages are spoken. Why is it that there is so much turmoil among the African churches opposed to the loose and unbiblical stance of Canterbury. The Anglican Church is dying everywhere because it has forsaken its first love in Christ. They lack backbone except in their belligerance toward biblical doctrine.
If the CoE survives, its must do so by a return to those biblical doctrines that made it a church in the first place. It must abandon a social gospel of “everything goes, except morality” and become a biblically-centered Church once more.
There _is_ an orthodox Church in Québec: the Roman Catholic Church. And it’s declining something fierce as well. French speakers have never been Anglicans in any significant numbers and historically the reasons have never been theological (though they may have been rationalised as such post facto). The diocese of Montréal is adding loads of French to its ministry, and it’s having an effect, but it’s a slow process, and it may well fail. But the French speakers we do attract invariably mention that they feel at home in the ACC because a) it’s not against gays and female and married clergy and b) the liturgy is the exact same one as the RC (not quite true, of course, but there you go).
If you can’t see that in Québec, much still has to do with language, that’s your own lookout.
Actually, for the past 40 or more years, too many RC Church parishes have been becoming terribly liberal — those in Quebec included. Someone in Quebec looking for real RC orthodoxy might be hard put to find it anymore in most parts of the province.
And since when were the Quebecoise such open-minded individuals that they are put off by anything but relativism? I recall Parizeau’s comments about “the ethnics” and all the terribly blatant anti-semitism of the general Quebec populace. So surely you kid that they are looking for this much ballyhooed “openess” and “inclusiveness.”
Have you been here since 1995, one wonders? And spoken to people in anything other than English? The reason we’re having a conversation now is because I personally made the effort to learn your language, and I can assure you it’s not because it’s given me a better job.
Which Québec RC parish has the following: a married priest? A woman priest? How many have priests that are vocally… not anti-gay?
I yield to no one in seeing the parochial side of my own province, but as ever, things are slightly more involved than how you pithily characterise them.
And it’s Québécois. Québécoise is feminine singular.
I reply here to Vincent, at 4.2.1.1.1.
Sorry for the spelling gaffe in French, Vincent, but I do have truly excellent academic credentials in many another sense. French/English bilingualismn is not the ultimate sign of accomplishment, despite the way it has been promoted in Canada since Trudeau. Just another political ploy. There are bilinguals who have nothing of note to say in either language.
I have a fair amount of Quebec experience, but I have to say I would no longer choose to live there.
I don’t need to talk to you to make my life complete, Vincent, though you seem to insinuate that it means so much to me. I think I have passed-on some salient points to you, particularly when you were coming on with the one-liners. Not too much critical thought behind those.
And why, oh why do you set the standard of true Christianity at a parish which has a married priest or a woman priest? Window dressing only. You need to consider the truths behind the church, and not the fashions.
Oh, I know things are very involved in the Quebec question. I could write several good papers on the topic. But for someone who specializes here in clever comments and smiley faces, you aren’t exactly going too deep yourself.
With this being the 11th diocese to do this, does anyone feel (who is still left in the ACoC, and maybe those who have left) that maybe we should just quit complaining about this and…give up? This gets tougher to take all the time, all the blessings, for me anyway.
I think the Bishop just wants an excuse to take early retirement.
Since his diocese is going down the gurgler, maybe he should rename himself “Bishop Drainpipe”.
The situation is Quebec is complicated. There are many issues, not just revisionism but also as others have pointed out language and a culture that is increasingly secular. Likely there are other issues as well.
However the one thing that should be blatantly obvious is the horrendous lack of leadership on the part of the Bishop. He should be called to task by the House of Bishops and required to explain why he did (what appears to be) nothing and allow his Diocese to get into such a sorry state.
I exactly did what Anonymous alluded to. I reverted to the Catholic Church this year. I’m glad I resigned both from CoGS and the Quebec diocese because of their liberal and unorthodox tendancies. Unfortunately, the remaining orthodox Anglicans are very few and isolated in the ACoC.
As for the diocese of Quebec, it is almost on the verge of collapse. They have less than 1,500 active Anglicans.
Vincent, I am a Francophone, and I think the reason why they are not interested in the ACoC, is precisely because that church offers no orthodox and biblical Gospel. Of couse a little bit of French would help, but see the results in the United Church of Canada. Ah, they have little results even though they have bilingual (i.e. multilingual) national church website and other initiatives. It’s all about the Gospel that they propose.
The RC Church is not exactly doing well in Québec, and they are as hidebound as it gets. Of course they’re coming down from a higher point so they at least look like they’re doing a lot better than the Anglican Church. I don’t know which bunch of francophones you hang out with, but I’m guessing none of them are under fifty! 🙂
Mind you, the Pentecostal and the new evangelical movements are doing really well in Québec, and they are usually rather conservative, so it’s probably not quite as cut and dried as all that, I guess.
There have also been some very wacky and dangerous cults springing up in Quebec, with draconian leaders. They have many adherents there. So if the RC Church was so bad, why jump into a Stasi boot camp as an alternative?
They don’t have _many_ adherents, what a strange thing to say.
This anti-Québec slant to your posts is telling us a bit more about yourself than it does about Québec at this point. 😀
Tells us as much as your anti-orthodox slant, Vincent.
And you need to do your homework on those Quebec cults.
I see many children use the smiley-face icon all the time, but I don’t expect it from an adult. It does not add gravitas.
Sorry to have to disagree with you Vincent. But I do not see an anti-Quebec slant here. Just because someone does not automatically agree with you does not mean that they are anti-Quebec. It just simply means that they do not agree with you. This is usually because different people are knowledgable about different things. That we have this forum to share our knowledge and perspectives is a good thing in that it helps us to better understand each other.
Personally I have very little experience with Quebec. But I can say this. When my two oldest children went on a school trip to Quebec City they were received and treated with kindness and respect. This has served to strangthen my belief that most people are decent and good.
How sad it is that our news media, perhaps as a reflection of our culture, is so obsessed with showing us the bad stuff. For example, how quick and extensive is the news coverage of a single pedaphile Roman Catholic Priest? How completely lacking is the news coverage of the countless Roman Catholic Priests who have done so much that has made so great a positive diffence in the lives of so very many people? I have to wonder how much effect has this bad news only reporting had on the general impression that people have of Churches?
But perhaps those in Quebec with a religious orientation are looking for Apostolic Succession, at least. You cannot necesssarily believe that of the new evangelical churches.
Vincent,
I am in the 20-25 bracket, your guess was wrong. I was a youth delegate at CoGS. So orthodoxy is not only for those over 50 (and the Roman Church as well for that matter). In fact, in Quebec there is a growing FSSP parish attracting young adults, as well as other churches that are doing well. I must admit though that the general picture seems far from rejoicing for French Canada Catholicism compared to English Canada Catholicism. Cross the Ottawa River and the churches (Protestant and Catholic) are full.
If I were to guess a politico-religious analysis, I would say that a large segment of the Francophone population in Quebec does not want to hear about whatsoever form of authority whether it be the Protestant Sola scriptura or the Roman Magisterium. It might explain why they seem to complain a lot in politics too, without effectively engaging the issues.
This is interesting, thanks. Do you think our divergent impressions of the province might be the result of two (or indeed more) solitudes within Québec, one of which would be the greater Montréal area?
How refreshing to hear such a lucid argument from a young man who shares in the orthodox approach to Holy Scripture. Concerning his assessment of the Francophone populations of Quebec regarding their view of authority – religious, political, etc – I believe he has nailed the truth. If the people of France are primarily of that mind-set, why should their progeny of Quebec be different?
I think however it pertains more to the Quebec situation than the one in France. There is a huge renewal in France, traditional Catholicism is flourishing and as for the evangelical churches, their numbers are exploding.
Quebec is more of a people who was defined by one structure (the Roman Church), threw it out and now looks at what it has done with bewilderment.
The Roman Church was not that huge political/social/cultural umbrella in France at least not since the Third Republic (1870). Secularism has affected France for a much more longer period than for Quebec. Therefore, France had its religiously dry period before Quebec.
That renewal in France should be an encouragement for orthodox Christians in Quebec. Quebec is more of a sui generis people now, but interesting parallels can be drawn with France.
Dude, no question but that you have me beat in the gravitas department.
You seem to have a bit of an anti-RC and ageism thing going on too.
Sorry, just picked up on this: women priests are window dressing only? Why is it such a sore point then? Genuinely confused here.
Also, anti-RC I’ll happily admit to. It’s not particularly personal (big catholic family with a priest and everything, my kids are at a Catholic school and I spent years at music school with nuns), but it’s definitely there.
Ageism, nah. Sorry if I gave that impression. I’m 43, I’m not exactly young myself.
Do we have just one Anonymous or several Anonymi em, Anonynmooses em, Anonymum or whatever the plural is?
I’m not saying
Now, now, don’t be naughty.
We have just one other than the imposter above who is trying to confuse things.
Mea Culpa. Sometimes I can’t help myself but I was born this way so it is OK.
ROFL
Despite many seeing demographics, language and economics being to blame for this it sounds that in Quebec the Titanic has hit the bottom of the sea and there are 1500 swimming about in the cold waters above about to drown. The lifeboats have rowed away to keep from being sucked down and there is no hope of a rescue. And who is too blame? The officers, who blithely in their attitudes of smug superiority rammed her into the iceberg of Progressiveness are.
One of the biggest issues I’ve personally seen in churches, and I witnessed this in Quebec City, and Montreal suburbs, is the lack of…welcome. My husband and I, with and without our children in tow, have been completely ignored in many a parish when we have been visitors to worship. Anglicans we are, but not welcomed whatsoever by anyone in the pews. That’s a surefire way to grow a church, ignore people.
Just like the Cathedral in Brandon, at coffee the cliques are in a shoulder to shoulder circle, not looking to see who else is there.
Have you been to Christ Church Cathedral in downtown Montréal? I found it quite extraordinarily welcoming and family-friendly. We’ve been worshipping there about a year now, and we’ve made friends, we’re helping out, it’s remarkably vibrant.
It is unfortunate that the ACoC leadership will 5th column the successful parishes. When I went to St. George’s (Brandon) it was the same but Bishop Jim pushed buttons and there was a mass walk out. I have never seen a standing ovation for a Bishop (+Malcolm) during processional until our first Sunday in our new church.