It is quite obvious that someone is selling this item on eBay from their own effects. The ACoC is not selling anything. People sell souvenir spoons from everywhere on eBay. You will see every kind of vestment and liturgical object. This has nothing to do with the misleading and negative title of this post. No one is hawking silversare on behalf of the Church. This kind of misleading, slanted, and, frankly, nasty headline is typical of the people who seem to post here. Why is defaming other Christians, who are acting sincerely and according to their conscience, such a sport for you? You rejoice in iniquity, but not in the truth. This is shameful.
I get it. You really don’t expect to be taken seriously at all. All this destructiveness is a way of having fun. There is a name for people who enjoy the pain or suffering of others that you will find on the list of those shunned by Akinola and frends.
You should check the facts before you post. The “person” who has listed this item is an EBay “Power Seller”, and is an online store. He/she has over 23,000 reviews with a 100% positive feedback. The item listing also states that “If you buy more than one spoon we will gladly combine your order “. This indicates to be that this is clearly not someone selling one of their “own effects”.
That being said, I have no problem with a Church selling “souvenir” items, be they spoons, plates, tea cups, or coffee mugs. Such items are almost always sold to only Parishioners, and generate so little profit for the Church that I have a very hard time considering it a fundraising effort.
Also, if there is any “destructiveness” it is on the part of people like Hitlz, Ingham and Bird. For they are the people who, by their heresies, have caused the greatest amount of damage to the Anglican Church of Canada.
It really doesn’t matter if the person selling these items is a “Powerseller” or a little old lady (or man). The truth is that no one is selling “the silverware” on behalf of the Anglican Church. Making it seem so is plain old lying. There are souvenir spoons for every conceivable organization, group, or cause that people collect. As an aside (not connected to this issue) there is hardly a parish or church anywhere of most denominations that hasn’t at one time or another sold those ubiquitous plates, mugs, spoons, hasti-note paper, pens, pins, ties, etc. I’m sure they show up at flea markets and on eBay with great regularity. We never seem to look askance at this. And then there are stained glass windows, church furnishings, candlesticks, chalices, etc. that have brass placques or inscriptions on them, usually giving the name of a donor, although memorials may only state the name of the deceased. The Church has done this for centuries (think of chantry chapels, endowments, etc.) and we never bat an eyelash. Plus ca change…
I notice that “people like” Hiltz, Ingham, and Bird appear on your “Personae non gratae” list. I wasn’t aware of the heterodoxy of the Primate. That being said, there must be some bishops who have made it through your personal screening system and are considered at least sufficiently orthodox. Who might they be? Are any in the area of the Ecclesiastical Province of Ontario, or do we have to look far afield? By the same token, are we to assume that all Network/ACNA clergy are as close to perfection and godliness as is possible in this world? Why do you think God may have called any of these persons you so quickly dismiss and revile into ordained ministry or guided a Synod to vote for them? Or are we all deluded by Satan? I can’t imagine that persons offering their lives in the service of the Church by entering the Sacred Ministry says at the outset “I want to be ordained so I can devote my life to destroying the Church”. Or perhaps you believe that this is their sole purpose and motivation. if so, it would seem that we cannot trust God, believe in the Spirit, or assume that anyone can be sincerely or truly called. Unless, of course, you are prepared to endorse them.
My gosh you read a lot into what other people say. You also seem to have difficulty with being criticized.
Please note that I did say “I have no problem with a Church selling “souvenir” items”.
As far as people like Hiltz, Ingham and Bird go. I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and concede that they may have entered into the service of God with good intentions. However, Ingham and Bird have most certainly gone astray, and Hiltz has failed to either bring them back to God or discipline them. Heresy must be fought every time it rears its evil head.
For almost 500 years within Anglicanism, and 2000 years in Christianity, the elevation of a man to the Episcopate was not done by a vote of the laity and a vote of the clergy. The innovation of “democracy” into the process of someone becoming a Bishop is one of the many diseases that have been inflicted the Anglican Church of Canada by the revisionists. The selection process, as it stands presently, is like having the students and teachers of a school vote on who they will have as school principal. Clearly this is absurd, especially when you consider the aspect of employees selecting who will be their supervisor. But for some strange and mysterious reason, this exact situation is acceptable (even desirable) by the ACoC.
As an aside (not connected to this issue) there is hardly a parish or church anywhere of most denominations that hasn’t at one time or another sold those ubiquitous plates, mugs, spoons, hasti-note paper, pens, pins, ties, etc.
We must travel in very different church circles. Of the 25 or so churches I’ve been part of over the course of my life, crossing 12 denominations, I don’t recall ever seeing sales of any of the trinkets you have described. For someone who is greatly concerned with “plain old lying”, methinks you exaggerate at the very least. As far as the issue addressed by the original post is concerned, I’m ambivalent.
At least one of those items is probably available somewhere. This hardly worth an argument. How can this be any more clear-an eBay “Powerseller” has listed, among the thousands of items, including souvenir spoons, a spoon with the crest (arms) of the Anglican Church of Canada. These have been available for decades. No one representing the AcoC, the Anglican Book centre, or anything else connected with the ACoC i selling these spoons. For all the seller cares, they could be from anywhere. Therefore the title of this post on the right side of the front page (“Anglican Church of Canada is hawking the silverware”) is completely untrue. How is this different from a “plain old lie”?
It’s transparently obvious that this post is a spoof; the fact that it has generated this much discussion demonstrates that it reveals a deeper truth: the ACoC is close enough to bankruptcy that there is more than a shred of plausibility in the headline.
You should read with more nuance and subtlety – the way you probably like to read the Bible.
Spoof or not, the answers I received were not spoofs. Of course, they focused much more on my deficiencies than anything else. Also, it’s always interesting to see how people infer things, put words in mouth, or sidetrack into non-issues.
That’s a great deal -especially since it will soon be a collector’s item.
Peace,
Jim
It is quite obvious that someone is selling this item on eBay from their own effects. The ACoC is not selling anything. People sell souvenir spoons from everywhere on eBay. You will see every kind of vestment and liturgical object. This has nothing to do with the misleading and negative title of this post. No one is hawking silversare on behalf of the Church. This kind of misleading, slanted, and, frankly, nasty headline is typical of the people who seem to post here. Why is defaming other Christians, who are acting sincerely and according to their conscience, such a sport for you? You rejoice in iniquity, but not in the truth. This is shameful.
Derek,
Surely not; I naturally assumed – in keeping with the tawdry corporate sponsorship covin – that it was on consignment from ACoC.
I get it. You really don’t expect to be taken seriously at all. All this destructiveness is a way of having fun. There is a name for people who enjoy the pain or suffering of others that you will find on the list of those shunned by Akinola and frends.
Derek,
The fact that I poke fun doesn’t mean I don’t intend to be taken seriously.
Hello Derek (2)
You should check the facts before you post. The “person” who has listed this item is an EBay “Power Seller”, and is an online store. He/she has over 23,000 reviews with a 100% positive feedback. The item listing also states that “If you buy more than one spoon we will gladly combine your order “. This indicates to be that this is clearly not someone selling one of their “own effects”.
That being said, I have no problem with a Church selling “souvenir” items, be they spoons, plates, tea cups, or coffee mugs. Such items are almost always sold to only Parishioners, and generate so little profit for the Church that I have a very hard time considering it a fundraising effort.
Also, if there is any “destructiveness” it is on the part of people like Hitlz, Ingham and Bird. For they are the people who, by their heresies, have caused the greatest amount of damage to the Anglican Church of Canada.
It really doesn’t matter if the person selling these items is a “Powerseller” or a little old lady (or man). The truth is that no one is selling “the silverware” on behalf of the Anglican Church. Making it seem so is plain old lying. There are souvenir spoons for every conceivable organization, group, or cause that people collect. As an aside (not connected to this issue) there is hardly a parish or church anywhere of most denominations that hasn’t at one time or another sold those ubiquitous plates, mugs, spoons, hasti-note paper, pens, pins, ties, etc. I’m sure they show up at flea markets and on eBay with great regularity. We never seem to look askance at this. And then there are stained glass windows, church furnishings, candlesticks, chalices, etc. that have brass placques or inscriptions on them, usually giving the name of a donor, although memorials may only state the name of the deceased. The Church has done this for centuries (think of chantry chapels, endowments, etc.) and we never bat an eyelash. Plus ca change…
I notice that “people like” Hiltz, Ingham, and Bird appear on your “Personae non gratae” list. I wasn’t aware of the heterodoxy of the Primate. That being said, there must be some bishops who have made it through your personal screening system and are considered at least sufficiently orthodox. Who might they be? Are any in the area of the Ecclesiastical Province of Ontario, or do we have to look far afield? By the same token, are we to assume that all Network/ACNA clergy are as close to perfection and godliness as is possible in this world? Why do you think God may have called any of these persons you so quickly dismiss and revile into ordained ministry or guided a Synod to vote for them? Or are we all deluded by Satan? I can’t imagine that persons offering their lives in the service of the Church by entering the Sacred Ministry says at the outset “I want to be ordained so I can devote my life to destroying the Church”. Or perhaps you believe that this is their sole purpose and motivation. if so, it would seem that we cannot trust God, believe in the Spirit, or assume that anyone can be sincerely or truly called. Unless, of course, you are prepared to endorse them.
re Derek (7 & 8 )
My gosh you read a lot into what other people say. You also seem to have difficulty with being criticized.
Please note that I did say “I have no problem with a Church selling “souvenir” items”.
As far as people like Hiltz, Ingham and Bird go. I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and concede that they may have entered into the service of God with good intentions. However, Ingham and Bird have most certainly gone astray, and Hiltz has failed to either bring them back to God or discipline them. Heresy must be fought every time it rears its evil head.
For almost 500 years within Anglicanism, and 2000 years in Christianity, the elevation of a man to the Episcopate was not done by a vote of the laity and a vote of the clergy. The innovation of “democracy” into the process of someone becoming a Bishop is one of the many diseases that have been inflicted the Anglican Church of Canada by the revisionists. The selection process, as it stands presently, is like having the students and teachers of a school vote on who they will have as school principal. Clearly this is absurd, especially when you consider the aspect of employees selecting who will be their supervisor. But for some strange and mysterious reason, this exact situation is acceptable (even desirable) by the ACoC.
In #7 Derek said:
We must travel in very different church circles. Of the 25 or so churches I’ve been part of over the course of my life, crossing 12 denominations, I don’t recall ever seeing sales of any of the trinkets you have described. For someone who is greatly concerned with “plain old lying”, methinks you exaggerate at the very least. As far as the issue addressed by the original post is concerned, I’m ambivalent.
At least one of those items is probably available somewhere. This hardly worth an argument. How can this be any more clear-an eBay “Powerseller” has listed, among the thousands of items, including souvenir spoons, a spoon with the crest (arms) of the Anglican Church of Canada. These have been available for decades. No one representing the AcoC, the Anglican Book centre, or anything else connected with the ACoC i selling these spoons. For all the seller cares, they could be from anywhere. Therefore the title of this post on the right side of the front page (“Anglican Church of Canada is hawking the silverware”) is completely untrue. How is this different from a “plain old lie”?
Derek,
You’re such a literalist.
It’s transparently obvious that this post is a spoof; the fact that it has generated this much discussion demonstrates that it reveals a deeper truth: the ACoC is close enough to bankruptcy that there is more than a shred of plausibility in the headline.
You should read with more nuance and subtlety – the way you probably like to read the Bible.
Spoof or not, the answers I received were not spoofs. Of course, they focused much more on my deficiencies than anything else. Also, it’s always interesting to see how people infer things, put words in mouth, or sidetrack into non-issues.